The Notaires de France website

UNDERSTANDING some of the legal aspects of life in France can be a challenge to many people.

The steps required during a property purchase, how to make a will and a range of other questions and problems can often raise their head.

But a useful site to get an understanding of the rules and regulations is the English language section of the Notaires de France website.

There is a range of information, laid out in a very simple style, which is easy to navigate around and provides a mine of tips and advice.

The site is split into four main sections, family, home, estate and business, with detailed information beneath these.

For example under the My Home section you can find out more about presale deeds, the cost of purchasing a home and obligations related to any sale.

Whilst in the family section there is information on marriage, inheritance and adoption, again simply laid out and easy to understand.

Even if you have to eventually go to a notaire to sort out your legal problem, if you have been able to read up a bit of background beforehand it is a great help.

And this is what the site will be particularly useful for.

To visit the Notaires de France website, please click here.

Comments

[Pat Foreman]

Hello there, I do hope you can help.
We recently sold our property in France - 3 weeks ago - and are having a terrible time with the notaire. Basically, they are holding onto our money. I've sent them everything they've asked for to do the capital gains calculation (I sent this well in advance of completion) and .. nothing. I've e-mailed and faxed and posted things - no acknowledgement.
The only thing I can think to do now is make a formal complaint - I wonder if you could tell me the name and address of the governing body for notaires in France?
Many thanks.
Pat Foreman

[Fabien Cordiez Esq.]

Dear Pat

The type of problem which you are experiencing with that notaire is not uncommon. You could complain to the Chambre Départementale des Notaires (their local Law Society), as this may help speeding matters up. I can aslo write formally to the notaire on your behalf requesting detailed explanations as to what causes the delay and which documents they require in order to assess you CGT liability.

With regards

Fabien Cordiez
Avocat & Solicitor

[MOIRA WEAVER]

hi,a notaire oversaw the sale of our house then the neighbours.Our com.de v. says we have right of way through their garden, hers that we have not.Notaire insists all along that we have as do est. agent.Turns out we do not,and house is no good for us. Chanbre de N. just shrug. Any suggestions? Regards, Mo

[Sonia]

Hello, i recently bought a French property, which i paid for in full. I then organised the mortgage after the sale, which the mortgage company transferred to the notaire's account. The notaire then chargde me 2,000 euros for transferring the money to my account, which i am disputing. Is there anybody who can give me some of their experience or advice on how to proceed? Thanks

[Jchapman]

I am having probelms with a notaire not responding to any of my correspondence even with it being written in both French/English its to do with a re-mortgage and drawing up an act de pret. He doesnt even return the calls of my french bank what should i do??

[Craig McGinty]

Reading the advice above of Fabien Cordiez I think you need to contact the regional office of the notaires society.

Once you have an address here is a standard letter that you can use to get things moving:

http://www.modele-lettre.com/lettre_reclamation_aupres_de_la_chambre_departementale_des_notaires_1504_750.html

Hope this helps.

Craig

[Mrs Myra Thompson]

Hi, can anyone help with advice. We need a Notaire that speaks English and is sympathtic to our problem with the French inheritance laws. We have both been married before and have children by each marriage. We would like to sort our wills leaving each other the option of selling our properties without involving the children necessarily. We would be grateful for any advice possible please.
Myra Louise

[Fabien Cordiez]

Most French notaires are very professional, courteous and competent, but there are some situations where customers, especially non-French speakers, are experiencing difficulties: they are either being overcharged for a service, or simply left in the dark with no answer whatsoever to their queries, delays occur etc... In most cases, these difficulties are, in actual fact, due to communication problems. Whatever may cause such troubles, the result is that customers feel they are being bullied, with very little recourse against the notaire concerned.

Instructing a bilingual French lawyer can of course help overcome these situations. Where a serious issue arises, your lawyer can write to the notaires' local Law Society and lodge a formal complaint on your behalf. If this does not yield results, as a last recourse, your lawyer can sue the notaire in question for negligence.

As always, it is advisable to prevent this from happening if possible: involving your own French lawyer from the outset can, in the end, make you save a lot of money. If problems do happen, do not wait until matters have gone worse before consulting an independent French solicitor.

[Craig McGinty]

I had a chat with Fabien about finding the address of your local Law Society office, he replied:

The best way to locate notaires' local law societies is by conducting a search on the French Yellow pages (English version), which can be found at: http://www.pagesjaunes.fr/pj.cgi?lang=en
The name to be entered is "chambre des notaires".

People should also type the name of the relevant area or city where the notaire's office is located.

[Victoria]

My husband and I (only marriage with one child) wish to enter into a French marriage "communaute universelle" wherein the couple are co-owners of everything so that when one of them dies, the other automatically inherits everything. We have seen a French~speaking Notaire who is happy to do this for us but for which, we think, is a great deal of money! Does anyone know if there is a basic fee for this sort of thing or could someone recommend a Notaire in the western Orne who would give us a second opinion?

[Fabien Cordiez]

I often help English-speaking clients opt for "Communauté Universelle" and can report that average fees, which notaires charge, range from 400 € to 600 €.

I do not know any particular notaire in the western Orme area I am afraid. Please note however that any notaire could arrange this for you and, if necessary, the Communauté Universelle Deed can be executed in your absence, provided you sign a Power of Attorney. This requires you to make an appointment with a Notary Public established near where you live (assuming that you do not permanently live in France) and obtain a special Seal called "Apostilled", which most Notary Publics now how to arrange.

I hope this is of assistance.

Regards,

Fabien Cordiez
http://www.solicitor.fr

[Daniel Prades]

I'm thinking of returning to France and buying a house out in the country ( Pryenees ). I was born in Nice long ago and still a Frenchman. The comments on your site indicate that everyone has their hand
out or in your pocket. How would you recommend
I proceed without getting screwed to badly.
Thanks in advance For your help?
Daniel

[Craig McGinty]

Hi Daniel
Many thanks for your message. I think it is important to remember that the messages above are from people who have had difficulties, and so have a reason to seek advice.

The majority of people will have a smooth and easy experience of buying in France, but a couple of steps you can take include maybe appointing your own notaire to take a look over the legal details and depending on the age of a property appoint a surveyor to cast a professional eye over it.

All the best
Craig

[clare turner]

We recently purchased a French property and was told on numerous occasions by the notaire that we qualified for the "first sale" discount in terms of fees/registration etc. During the 4.5 month sale period, at no time were we told that the owner had sold 50% of the house to his girlfriend and that we were only entitled to half of the house value at the discounted rate. The icing on the cake is that this notaire actually executed this initial sale transaction. The legally binding compromis clearly states the fees at the discounted rate but the notaire now wants us to pay an additional Euros 5,800.We feel he has acted in a negligent manner. Do we have a case at all and if so, how do we go about this. Do we pay the extra and then take this higher with whoever and how????? Best regards,Clare Turner

[Fabien Cordiez]

Dear Clare,

I would need to check the "compromis de vente" (reservation contract) before giving my professional opinion on the issue which you describe, but, from what you say, it does seem that the notaire has acted negligently. Irrespective of the notaire's possible negligence, if the sale's final terms and conditions differ from those you initially agreed, you should be entitled to cancel the sale and recover your deposit. Before one can make an opinion on the legality of such cancellation, careful inspection of the initial contract's wording and subsequent correspondence are of course necessary.

Kind regards,

Fabien Cordiez
http://www.solicitor.fr

[clare turner]

Hi Fabien
Thanks for your response. My problem is that the notaire only asked for the additional Euros 5,800 17 days after we had completed on the house and had already moved in so we can't turn back now or ask for a refund. Either we ask him to pay the additional amount since it was his mistake or we pay and sue him? All this is, if we have a case or not? Do we have a case or do we have to pay it irrespective of him being negligent and swallow the pain! THe compromis de vente which is legally binding and signed for by both parties at compromis stage, clearly states the fees as being the initial Euros amount that we had budgeted for. Had we known they were going to come back for more AFTER completion, we would have negotiated a lower purchase price or not even bought in the first instance.
HELP HELP HELP!
Best regards
Clare Turner

[Nick Williamson]

My wife and I bought an appartment in Pyrenees Orientals. We decided to use our own Notaire for the transaction in addition to the Promoters Notaire. The Promoters Notaire has held a substantial part of our purchase money from the Promoter for over a year. No reason given. We have proof of transfer by a letter and Financial Statement from our own Notaire. The Promoter is demanding the money from us. We are alarmed because the Acte arrived yesterday showing this money not paid. Is this a problem for us?

[Craig McGinty]

Hi Nick, difficult to answer your question from just a few paragraphs, but what has your own Notaire said?

You've most probably spent good money on them, so make sure they earn their corn.

Otherwise you are most likely looking at taking legal advice again.

Regards, Craig

[Chris Nash]

Hi

I too have had trouble with my Notaire. He failed in his duty to us. We bought a property to use as a business. He failed to tell us that there were certain legal maintenance works that were outstanding, and that the previous owner should have carried out the year before the sale. Had we known about these, we would not have purchased, and now have around 20,000 euros to find in order to do this work. There are also a number of documents which should have been annexed to our Deed of Sale which are missing. Surely we have some recourse, as this is a legal document. I did try to seek legal advice, but my avocat was next to useless, and just went on about his money. In 6 months, nothing got done and I am back to square one. Why can't we ever get any help in France - no one wants to know and we just have to get on with it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Colin Lowe]

My wife passed away in the UK. Probate etc has been sorted in the UK but I need to change the names on our French house, banks and services.
How do I go about this?
Any help will be appreciated.

[Craig McGinty]

Hi Colin, changing bank account details should be possible from within your branch. For property questions I think a visit to the notaire would be advisable, if the one involved in your purchase is still operating possibly start there. But you can go elsewhere if necessary.
Hope this helps
Craig

[Colin Lowe]

Thanks Craig, I will try my bank when I get back from my vacation
Colin
(Loire Atlantique)

[Melissa Wilson]

I hope you can answer this complicated query. Basically I had sold my house to an elderly couple and the Compris de Vente was signed. One week after the seven day cooling off period, they came to see me as they realised they had made a mistake and wanted to pull out of the agreement. I felt very sorry for them, as there were financial issues there, and also they had been led to believe that planning permission was not required for an extension they wanted to build (as it was under 20 sqm internally). I think the estate agent had given them a rough estimate of the cost of the extension, although nothing was ever given in writing i.e a devis. They did not ask for a condition suspensive at the signing, and I felt uncomfortable for them as it appeared the Agent just wanted his sale and his fee. It's now apparent, that to do the extension work properly, this would cost more than originally budgeted, and possibly planning would need to be requested. In hindsight, they feel my property isn't right for them and what with the cost involved, etc, they do not wish to proceed. I agreed with them that they could pull out of the sale, and I have given my word that I will not seek the 10% deposit. I too feel that I was rushed into the sale at the time of the offer, as at the time I had a close relative in hospital and my marriage was on the verge of a break-down.
The buyers also had discovered from friends of friends that there had been damp in the property some months ago. I had never disclosed this to the Agent, as far as I was concerned, the problem had been rectified. An other issue is access, in order to access their property, they need to pass onto my land. Again, this was not written into the contract. Is there any fault placed here?
Will the notaire and the estate agent demand their fees to be paid? If so, what percentage and who by? Thanks for your help:!

[Craig McGinty]

Hi Melissa, considering there are so many details involved in your case, I wouldn't recommend relying on the site's messages for such an important decision. I really do think you need to sit down with the notaire and estate agent to talk things through.
All the best, Craig

[Guillaume Barlet]

Dear Melissa,

It is unlikely that the estate agent's commission would be due and I would suspect the same goes for the notary's fees.

It is important to understand that a compromis is a private agreement that can therefore be modified or cancelled by another private agreement.

Contact me if you need to settle this. I would be happy to assist you.

Kind Regards,

[Karen Kehily]

I am looking for a recommendation on an english speaking notaire in the Sainte Maxime region to assist with the sale of a property. Can you advice?

[keith broley]

I have a barge presently in France which I wish to sell.
( the barge is registered in U.K.)
When I find a purchaser, is a Notaire able to provide an escrow service for a secure exchange of money and barge ?

[annie blake]

My mum lived in France and was a resident but not a property owner. she died 2 1/2 years ago and the notaire appointed to deal with the inheritance by my brother and sister is no longer answering my solicitors calls or mine and has not filled in any paperwork. We have issued a complaint to the law society but it did not work I got a further notaire representing just me and still no joy -is court the next avenue - any suggestions?

[Paul Roberts]

I have reluctantly decided to sell my apartment in the south of France and am encountering a couple of problems, these are:

1. We were informed by the estate agent that the 5 year of ownership point would occur in April 2009 which would mean that TVA would not be liable after this point. However a recent letter from the Notaire has informed us that the TVA cut off point is in May 2010. A check of previous records confirms that full payment for the property was made before Aug 2004 and the actual keys for the property were handed to us in that Month. it appears that the Notaire is referring to the final development completion date and not when we 'moved in' to our apartment. Can this really be the case as the reason we accepted the price we did (reduced from the original asking price) was because we believed the TVA would not be payable?

2. Secondly is the TVA payable on the sale price or on the net gain (in conjunction with the Capital Gains Tax). As the difference between the two could be quite substantial.

Any assistance would be warmly appreciated

Paul

[Garrett]

After five years I have just lost my lovely house in Brittany, due to the Notaire's far from adequate attitude in supplying relevant information. The whole was topped by a reoccurance of an inherent mental illness which the Notaire refused to recognise or acknowledge or admit was genuine. So he promptly sold my lovely house which I had spent practically the whole of the las five years renovating. Despite my latter day protests he cheated me and then sells it onto a young French couple who have very idea. I am looking for help to sue the Notair if I can possibly afford it.
Do you know anyone who could be interested in helping me before I soon pass on through shock, gross anger and acute disappointment please?

[Jason Black]

Why can I not find comprehensive details of Notair fees on the net? Do they have some kind of secret fees list or do they make them up as they go along? All I am interested in is how much I will be charged for a simple remortgage but cannot get an answer from my bank or Notaire. I would never employ a solicitor in the UK for a remortgage without knowing exactly how much it would cost but here all I can get is "have two or three thousand put aside for the fees".

[Guillaume Barlet]

Dear Jason,

Notaire's fees are not set by the notaires themselves but set by law. However, their calculation is very complicated to say the least!

There are in fact two types of fees:
- set tariffs for every single contract, deed and administrative operation a notary may carry out,
- additional fees agreed privately between the notaire and the client. These additional fees must by law be agreed prior to any instruction. There is no obligation for a client to accept these fees.

This is the latter fee that is usually agreed by the client without his knowing because the notaire quotes an approximate fee that includes both of the above.

It is important to be aware that notaires can actually give you a precise quote at the outset. They often do not because they prefer keeping their activity in an obscure shroud making it increasingly difficult for clients to trust them. Maintaining uncertainty on how to calculate fees also allows notaires to charge fees that can sometimes amount to three times the set tariff. I have too often seen this type of unprofessional behaviour.

It is perfectly acceptable to ask for a quote in writing detailing each item of the fees (the notaire’s account department has usually a program designed for this).

Do not hesitate to contact me (contact details and website address available by clicking on my name) if you need some assistance with your project.

Kind Regards,

Guillaume

[Susan]

I am a holder of a New Zealand Passport. Should I buy a barge in France with the intention on living and cruising the waterways of France for the next few years but unexpectedly died in France or elsewhere, what is the position with regard to inheritance laws/taxes? Would a barge be considered under the same category as residential real estate?

[Frank Magee]

Can anyone help me with a problem? Due to a leaseback collapse I had to sell 2 apartments in 2007. As one was over the 150000euro limit the notaire engaged a Financiere Accreditee to calculate tax due. In Dec.2009 I received a tax demand for 8000euro plus penalities as the notaire and financiere had both made mistakes in their calculations. The notaire says it was my responsibility but he carried out all the calculations. I had no role. Must I pay?

[Guillaume Barlet]

Dear Frank,

Without a complete knowledge of the conditions of the sale, it is difficult to assess the liabilities in your particular case. However, usually, the notary at least and possibly the tax representative are responsible for the capital gains tax return.

Prior to CGT calculations, you should have signed an agreement with the tax representative outlining their liability in case of error.

I would suggest to seek legal advice asap.

I am happy to discuss the matter with you if you wish (01242 520 074) or contact me by email (guillaume.barlet@bhim.co.uk).

All the Best,

Guillaume Barlet

[jane o'shea]

is there anyone out there who purchased a lease back appartment in green marines;st.gilles croix de ville?would love to discuss current problems we are all facing with what looks like to be the imminent collapse of the lease back agreement.please e-mail me at above address, thanks, jane

[P Jewson]

We just spent 38 months and dozens of letters, emails, couriers & calls trying to get a notaire to finish processing a simple inheritance (not real estate involved - only bank deposits & mutual funds) in France. Having him send a simple letter would take up to 8 months. The matter is finally being concluded. However, we just found out the notaire also failed to make the necessary tax declarations and remit deposits against estimated tax liability at the outset. As such the estate is now being slapped with penalties and interest charges approaching EUR 100,000. That's in addition to the staggering losses we have incurred as a result of having those investments stuck through the recent market meltdowns. We also see what seem to be duplicate charges (exact same charges submitted and paid for six months prior showing up again, as new charges owing). As far as we can tell the total Notaire fees alone on this matter are in the range of EUR 10,000. What recourse do we have? If we file a complaint with the chambre are we able to seek compensation for our damages or do we need to go throught the courts for that? I have kept evidence of the instructions provided and the constant follow-ups required/timelines involved. Years ago I was robbed at gun point while in Los Angeles. I didn't feel nearly as violated by that incident as I do by the process we just went through.

[Guillaume Barlet]

Dear P Jewson,

Unfortunately, this sort of story is not unusual and although it is now too late for you I would recommend to anyone who is not satisfied with a notaire to inform him or her in a letter before changing to another one. Nothing binds you to a notaire in particular.

As regards to your situation, there is little chance for you to get any satisfying response from the Chambre des notaires and certainly not compensation. It may be better to simply inform them in a letter (along with the notaire in question) of your intention to start a litigation procedure against them (or more exactly against MMA, the insurance company for all notaires).

This procedure may be long and costly so assess your situation carefully.

Best Wishes,

[janet]

I bought a house in France with my husband and
Fabien Cordiez assisted as our solicitor. His help was invaluable and he made it a real pleasure.
Here is his address
http://www.solicitor.fr

[Jo]

We had some prospective purchasers on our property in January this year and in April we all signed the pre-contract. In July they pulled out because they could not get a Mortgage and now I have asked the Notaire to let us know about the 10% deposit. She said that it was never paid by them. Can we sue the Notaire for not getting the deposit, as we have to now re-advertise the property.

[Guillaume Barlet]

Dear Jo,

It is unlikely that you would be entitled to any compensation as the buyers are usually protected should they not be granted a mortgage. However, this protection may have been waived by the buyers or they might not be entitled to this protection if they have failed to comply with the mortgage procedure. Even in the above circumstances it would be difficult to prove that the notaire is at fault.

The only thing that seems possible is to change your notaire and appoint someone to defend your interests.

Kind Regards,

Guillaume
French law & wealth consultant

[John Gardner]

I put, 'how to make a complaint against a French lawyer' into Google and got this site and a great many American sites. None of which give advice on the subject!

So my question, how do you make an official complaint against a French lawyer or is that as much a waste of time as it is in the UK? Anyone know?

John Gardner
PS Anyone buying or selling in the South should contact Notaires Debrus in Montpellier. They speak enough English, give an efficient service (so rare!) and above all are honest.

[Craig McGinty]

Hi John,
To lodge a complaint go through the Chambre Départementale des Notaires (their local Law Society), a link to the main site appears in the piece.
And the section you are after is this page with a directory of regional offices:
http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/xpage/annuaires?page=directory&id_directory=5&orig_page_id=72
All the best, Craig

[Guillaume Barlet]

Dear John,

Prior to contacting the chambre départementale des notaires, it is important to send a letter to the notaire in question (signed for delivery at least so you can prove its reception by the notaire if necessary). The letter should include a request to find a solution to your issue if necessary with the assistance of his professional liability insurance to pay compensation. Your prejudice must be detailed with dates and figures. You should also indicate that if an amicable solution cannot be found, you will be forced to contact the chambre départementale or interdépartementale des notaires for a disciplinary procedure and/or the procureur de la République if necessary.

You may feel that this first step is unnecessary but it may be important to be able to prove at some stage that you have done everything to find an amicable solution to the matter.

Do not hesitate to contact me if you would like to discuss this.

Best Wishes,

Guillaume
guillaume.barlet@bhim.co.uk

[John Gardner]

Thank you Craig and Guillaume.

I have sent everything by Fax and e-mail to ensure receipt. They cannot claim non receipt or it would have appeared as such in my e-mail in-box and there would have been a sent error message on the fax machine. Will this suffice?
Both lawyers are obviously working on the no avis de reception letter as an excuse for claiming non-receipt although modern technology will put a lie to that. However, in French law, that may not be sufficient.

So far both lawyers, from who I have requested specific information, have failed to respond. Worse, the President of the Tribunal is unaware of the errors of the first lawyer and is convinced her job is done even though the lawyer she appointed as temporary administrator of our co-owned building is very well aware of the situation. Appears no one talks to one another. The President has twice been informed by me of the situation but either did not read my letter or ignored its contents.

What I want is a full enquiry into the appalling service we have received and those responsible be held accountable. However, I fear pigs may be seen turning cartwheels in the sky before such a thing as apportioning fault will occur.

I will, however, follow your advice.

[Estelle Horden]

I sold my house in France 2 weeks ago and was advised by the notaire that The money due to me would take a week to transfer because the tax authority would need to check if I had any tax outstanding. I was not liable for any capital gains. It is now 2 weeks and the notaire does not respond to my calls or emails. I have contacted the agent who advised me the problem is the awaited return of an "Accreditation impots". I believe this should have been carried out prior to the sale and she has been negligent. I just want my money. I have sent a letter recording my concern. What else can I do to speed up the process.

[Jill Flemming]

Hello,
we recently entered into a purchase on the understanding that if the mortgage was not forthcoming for the amount the sale was void, the mortgage took a great deal of time with much tooing and frowing , untill they gave us a short amount. Consequently we did not purchase, I informed the notaire and the estate agents and sent them over 38 pages of communications with the bank showing that I complied with all their requests. The notaire told me that they were waiting on funds being released by the seller, and that she was keeping a nominal amount, we are ok with that, however now we have the estate agent asking over a month after the fact what the final offer was? why is he asking now? we have since rented and made other arrangements , do we have recourse? our compromis said subject to mortgage, also I read somewhere that if the mortgage app takes too the long the contract is nullified by the seller?? can you help?